One year without release

[Jeep Profile Private messageWebsite]

I suppose you have all noticed that we are approaching the first anniversary date of the latest release of ProShow born in February 2014 ! This is the very first time this happens in the Photodex history. We have known an epoch with dozen of releases in the year but this "one-year-without-release" is rather astonishing.
Has someone an idea for this lack of updates ? Are we waiting for a very major release for a 64-bit system, compatible with Windows 10, with 99 audio tracks, 7.1 audio and d-Cinema outputs ?
Anyway, I know they are working hard in Austin but it's so surprising that we may have a lot of questions
Jean-Pierre

[im42n8 Profile Private messageWebsite]

Yes, it is rather surprising that there's been no update in nearly a year. We can all speculate as to what's going on. However, in the past, our speculation as to the changes we expected in the next release was way off-base. It's highly likely that would be the case this time too... and we'd all be disappointed in your guesses not being met with reality.

Oh well. Keep your fingers crossed . . . we'll get something this year (maybe!). It's anyone's guess at to when. I'd have thought we'd seen one by now. I DO NOT believe they'll provide any kind of public release anytime within a year of the last release. Besides, the last public release was a minor fix of a previous release... go figure. From that perspective, I think it's been over a year now since the last release (not sure tho)!

Dale

[EJAB Profile Private message]

Agree -- Agree -- Agree ,,, Jeep and Dale. I HAVE NOT AND WILL NOT update to Ver 6 ... Now having said that,, I am a patient (if not stubborn and older folk type man which pains me to admit) update until a 64bit is introduced!! What I can understand (having spent 50 years in Marketing) why the wants and needs of consumers are not being met ? Again ,,having said that, I do understand that,, if a section of the market place is in effect more Lucrative to your company,, (and that depends on its size) then CEO's must make that decision to peruse what gives them the forward thinking that embraces the company,, (ie Profit and Market share) what you must keep in mind however,, is not to lose sight of What and Who are the cash Cows (if any) of your Company.
Again I complain !! Easy for those outside the square,,, but still have the Trust and Hope that this year we All will get that 64bit program. (If not,,, My Golf is getting better)

Regards EJAB (ake John B. Melbourne Australia)

[im42n8 Profile Private messageWebsite]

I don't know what the hangup with 64-bits is. The only thing it's really going to get you is the ability to handle some really big slides ... it's doubtful that very many (aside from the highly proficient ProShow users) have experienced that problem. Going 64-bit is NOT going to get you any speed increase that you're likely to notice. The program, right now is pretty stable these days but there are still a number of minor bugs which must be addressed. Yes, I'd like to see a 64-bit version too but ... I'm not holding my breath yet for it. I'm expecting it in one of the next couple of years, however, I AM one of those who's bumped up against the memory limits ... I have this penchant for regularly pushing the program to its limits. This program does not rely heavily upon floating point number crunching ... most such are, I would hazard, in video processing (preview stuff) which is, for the most part, handed off to the GPU. Anyone expecting a large speed increase in program operation is going to be more than a little disappointed when a 64-bit version does appear.

V6 came with a number of bug fixes and a couple of nice feature additions ... but many of us considered that it really should have been identified more as a v5.5 release than anything else (the major number change being simply a marketing ploy after not having a release in a year). There will undoubtedly be a number of bug fixes (especially output) in the upcoming release. What that it'll be a v7 release.

Dale

[Luke_Miller Profile Private messageWebsite]

I don't need a speed increase with a 64 bit version of Producer - I need the ability to use all the memory in my machine. My video editor is now 64 bit only and my photo editor will be 64 bit only at the next version. They provide the source material for my Producer shows. Some of my video intensive projects cannot be done in Producer. It just runs out of resources and crashes. I have to do them in Premiere Pro, which (other than the styles) can do everything Producer can do with both stills and video. I much prefer to use Producer since its user interface is much more user friendly than that of the same functions in Premiere. At present I do resource intensive projects in Premiere and those that Producer can handle in Producer. As the source material gets more resource intensive (4K?) that balance will continue to shift towards Premiere to the point that maintaining both becomes unnecessary. Photodex is late to the party. Hopefully it will release a 64 bit version before the party is over.

[im42n8 Profile Private messageWebsite]

I beg to differ with you about PP doing everything that PSP does with stills and videos ... big difference between the two. PSP does things PP simply cannot do with stills and PP does things with video that PSP simply cannot do with video. I too have both. However, I do no doubt that PP does what you want it to do with both stills and video and that you understand enough about PSP to do the same things in PP that you do in PSP.

The only real saving grace would be that a 64-bit PSP (or simply ProShow) would not run into the 4GB memory limitation of a 32-bit OS (well, it's actually closer to just less than 3GB when you consider the program AND the slide content).

But, a 64-bit application isn't all we would like to have here ... some robust improvement in capabilities and features that advanced users (and the real experts) can take advantage of would be nice. Right now, only the really advanced users can make effective use of some of ProShow's features or to make ProShow do some of the really impressive stuff. That's stuff that's available if you know what you're looking at and have a really inquiring mind. However, that capability is "hidden" in plain sight because Photodex didn't provide the tools to exploit those features ... they have to be created or developed by the end-user. It shouldn't be that way. However, most people, including many advanced users have no idea this capability exists ... in short, they don't know what they don't know (thinking they know everything there is to know about the program).

So, we, the end-user's, keep hoping for some really useful improvements to the program, a reduction in bugs, and a facility that enhances ease of use. We keep our fingers crossed and hope we get what we've been hoping for. In the past, we've been both disappointed and excited by features offered by new releases. Disappointed that the features we wanted weren't there and excited by the new features or capabilities that were.

Expect the same with then next release ... which is bound to occur sometime in the next 6 to 8 months, give or take a couple of months or so.

Dale

[Luke_Miller Profile Private messageWebsite]

I beg to differ with you about PP doing everything that PSP does with stills and videos ... big difference between the two. PSP does things PP simply cannot do with stills and PP does things with video that PSP simply cannot do with video. Dale

I think we are in agreement. What I should have said is that Premiere Pro has all the features I USE in Producer. Plus a few Producer lacks, such as OpenType font support.

My frustration with Producer is I have outgrown the capabilities of the 32 bit version. My productions run long (up to 50 minutes) and are all 1920x1080. Because of their lengths I need chapter stops and more complex menus than currently supported. I am increasingly incorporating 1920x1080 video clips and will go to 4K productions once I get a 4K TV. Some video intensive projects can't be done (I run out of resources) in the 32 bit Producer. Now I realize that I am probably not the typical Producer customer and that the things I would like to see Photodex add are probably not what most customers want.

That leads me to my biggest frustration. There is no ability to export a 1920x1080 Producer show other than in a highly compressed format. So finishing the project in Premiere Pro by adding chapter stops and doing my titling with an OpenType font runs the risk of having to decompress and then re-compress the video incurring a quality loss. Moreover the compressed Producer output file is often not in a format directly writable to Blu-Ray, so it has to be re-formatted by decompressing and re-compressing. I have a workaround for this, but it is a MainConcept plug-in to Premiere Pro that cost more than Producer and is no longer supported. At some point I will have to abandon it. I would be happy to use a CODEC that partly compressed the Producer output into an editable intermediate format, but Producer will corrupt the output if the production is longer than around 16 minutes in length. Probably a resource issue as it occurs with all the CODECs I've tried. Adobe Encore meets my menu needs, but again, the challenge is getting the production out of Producer.

So while I recognize and accept why the Producer features I would like are not present (and may not be forth coming) it almost seems as though Photodex does not want its customers to be able to add them via third party applications since it makes that process so difficult.

I am actually a fan of Producer (despite my griping) and will continue to use it as long as I can. But, barring some significant changes, I expect there will come a point where I will move on.

[im42n8 Profile Private messageWebsite]

ProShow v6 has OpenType support.

ProShow has never had chapter stops. You've always needed to go to an application that has that capability, such as Encore. ProShow's menuing capabilities have always been meager, adequate but meager. ProShow can output to 4k as Jeep has shown. He says that for 4096 x 2140 output use Custom -> MPEG-4 SP or AVC with the same resolution. Don't use a high framerate as it will become too long to render. The usual framerate in d-Cinema is 24 frames/second. Are you trying to export to MPEG-2?! You do NOT have to export to a "highly compressed" output format.

I don't know where you're getting your information concerning a limitation to "highly compressed" format for a 1080p show ... but methinks you're simply using the wrong export settings. This is not a v4, v5, or v6 output options issue ... it's a user settings issue.

I've had no problem exporting a 1080p, high resolution video that I can then process in PP as I see fit. Now, I don't do this very often but I haven't had a problem yet. Apparently Jeep has more experience with this stuff than I have ... and may have more advice. It may also be that there's a plugin for ProShow that allows HD customization that you may not have. I got it years ago and haven't thought much about it since. If that's the only problem ... that's a solution you might look into. HD is definitely doable in ProShow.

-Dale

UPDATE. The HD plugin I mentioned above is automatically enabled in Producer ... it must be purchased for Gold Users.

[Luke_Miller Profile Private messageWebsite]

ProShow v6 has OpenType support.

Thanks - I had missed that change.

[Jeep Profile Private messageWebsite]

I agree with Dale, ProShow can export in 4K with ease. You will find a link at the end of this post to download a 9.40 minutes show with photos in 21 Mpixels without any rescaling (they are all full frames images in 5616 x 3744 pixels).
I used the following parameters :
MPEG-4 SP
4096 x 2140
24 frames/sec
Bitrate : 20000 Kbit/s
The weight of the file is 1.13 Gb
I use to output in MPEG-AVC which gives a better quality but also bigger files, so for sharing I use MPEG-4 SP.
In my job, I often have to output in DCP (Digital Cinema Package) and I always use ProShow to get the first rendering in MPEG-4 AVC in 4K before using a specific software to convert MPEG-4 in a DCP output. Theses outputs may be seen in numerically equipped theaters. The only thing I have asked to Photodex is the availability to export a show frame by frame in JPEG2000 which is the official image format for the DCP outputs but I understand that this is very specific and may be delayed in their development calendar, there are other features more important for many ProShow users.

The link to download is http://jeeep.breizhbleu.com/Atelier/Scenes4K.mp4

[Luke_Miller Profile Private messageWebsite]

I agree with Dale, ProShow can export in 4K with ease.

I read your earlier post where you reported your 4K success. My point is that Producer can do a lot of things with shorter productions that it can't do with longer ones. One example is that I can export a high definition production with any CODEC on my system as long as it is less than 16 minutes in length. Beyond that point Producer crashes or generates a corrupted file. I have other examples of features that work in shorter productions, but fail in longer ones. I believe this is at least partly due to the memory addressing limitations of 32 bit applications and that a 64 bit version would improve Producer's ability to create (and export) high definition and ultra-high definition productions that are 30 or more minutes in length.

[Jeep Profile Private messageWebsite]

Did you try 4Gb patch ? It gives you full 4Gb of RAM (instead of 2 Gb when the system has run). This may be useful as intermediary solution before a true 64 bit program
You will find more details here : http://www.ntcore.com/4gb_patch.php

I personnaly use it with ProShow and I have output some 30 minutes shows without memory problems.

[tomcran Profile Private message]

I agree with Dale, ProShow can export in 4K with ease. You will find a link at the end of this post to download a 9.40 minutes show with photos in 21 Mpixels without any rescaling (they are all full frames images in 5616 x 3744 pixels).
I used the following parameters :
MPEG-4 SP
4096 x 2140
24 frames/sec
Bitrate : 20000 Kbit/s
The weight of the file is 1.13 Gb
I use to output in MPEG-AVC which gives a better quality but also bigger files, so for sharing I use MPEG-4 SP.
In my job, I often have to output in DCP (Digital Cinema Package) and I always use ProShow to get the first rendering in MPEG-4 AVC in 4K before using a specific software to convert MPEG-4 in a DCP output.

I am getting a 4k TV (Samsung) (delivery in about a week) and want to render some of my show files into 4k format so I can watch them in 4K on TV. So, I followed the above instructions and produced one little 4-minute show into an mp4 file, which I will use when I get my TV.

How do I go about viewing this in 4k on my TV? Can I load it onto a USB stick and plug that into the TV and will that work (I assume my TV's USB capabilities will include mp4 files, since the TV is 4K, but that's no guarantee.) If that doesn't work, I have an Oppo blu ray player and a receiver which are 4k compatible. Could I burn the file onto a blu ray disc as a data file and would that work with the TV? Any ideas are appreciated. Bottom line is just what is the easiest way to watch 4k produced through PSP, on my 4k TV, in 4K? Thanks.

[Jeep Profile Private messageWebsite]

Hi Tom,
4k on TV is UHDTV format which is 3840 x 2160 (a 16:9 ratio). It's a few different than 4k d-cinema but it will be as easy to produce. Use MPEG-4 SP as to avoid a too large file. It will be as good as MPEG-4 AVC on your TV. Normally these new TVs are MPEG-4 compatible and you may write your production on a USB key. Be careful to format your key in NTFS in order to write large files, if not you would be limited to the FAT format and 4 Gb.
You may write your file on a Blu-ray disk as data, it should be read by your 4K player. In that case you simply copy your MPEG-4 file onto the BD but it will require a really compatible 4K player.
Tell us the outcome of the story.

[tomcran Profile Private message]

Hi Tom,
4k on TV is UHDTV format which is 3840 x 2160 (a 16:9 ratio). It's a few different than 4k d-cinema but it will be as easy to produce. Use MPEG-4 SP as to avoid a too large file. It will be as good as MPEG-4 AVC on your TV. Normally these new TVs are MPEG-4 compatible and you may write your production on a USB key. Be careful to format your key in NTFS in order to write large files, if not you would be limited to the FAT format and 4 Gb.
You may write your file on a Blu-ray disk as data, it should be read by your 4K player. In that case you simply copy your MPEG-4 file onto the BD but it will require a really compatible 4K player.
Tell us the outcome of the story.

Thanks. I checked into my player, and it only upscales to 4k - it doesn't read initial 4k input. So 4k on my TV from PSP would have to be done through the TV itself. I checked and this Samsung USB port will accept mp4 files, if on a USB3 stick (on USB2 it may be stuttery). So USB3 stick into the TV is the way I'll go - it has one USB3 port.