Copyright music

Post links to music sources and discuss music choices for shows
Active Member
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:01 am
Location: Isle of Man

Copyright music

Postby Tosh » Thu May 01, 2008 1:03 pm

I can't understand all the copyright music on youtube - it does not make sense to me the uploaders are not banned etc(sorry about pun). Knowing my luck I would be chastised , however I notice forum members asking for and being sent certain music- does this mean am not alone using copyright music for my own shows which I do not distribute. I recently asked a company for copyright prermission and in spite of telling them it was all over youtube was refused - "honesty is the best policy" Huh???. So if someone in this forum asks for some song and I have it is it OK to send it to them??.
Cheers
tosh

.
User avatar
Posts: 9321
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:37 pm
Location: E. Greenbush, NY

Postby BarbaraC » Thu May 01, 2008 2:34 pm

Strictly speaking as you obviously know, it's not legal to use music you've purchased, not even on slide shows you make for personal enjoyment, but I don't know anyone here who doesn't use commercial music in this way.

As for YouTube, I believe some folks have had their stuff dumped off the site for copyright infringement, but I think the store is just too big for someone to mind it.

Recently, I tried to get permission to use Edgar Winter's "Frankenstein" for a show I wanted to submit for a Photodex contest. I very quickly located the right people, told them precisely how I wanted to use the music, and I was told they'd grant me permission for the sum of $1000. I wrote back, thanking them for their time, and saying that paying a thousand for the outside chance of winning, at most, $200 didn't make any sense whatsoever. Too bad most of the artists don't own their own music because I've a feeling they'd be a little more giving. This was one of the BIG companies, and it's this kind of thing that leads people into copyright infringement.

Barbara
The Frame Locker - styles, transitions, frames, backgrounds, & more.
Subscribe to Frame Locker News for alerts to new products.
How-to's: ProShowThink

ProShow Hall of Fame
User avatar
Posts: 3143
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:42 pm
Location: Northern Virginia

Re: Copyright music

Postby DickK » Thu May 01, 2008 3:33 pm

Tosh wrote:... So if someone in this forum asks for some song and I have it is it OK to send it to them??...tosh

Depends entirely on how comfortable you are with defending your actions in the lawsuit that the holder of the rights can bring.

As a practical matter, personal use of music you have is very unlikely to be objected to--but legally it can be. Distributing it to others is, in my opinion, just asking for trouble. The law isn't on your side.

Dick
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." Aristotle ((PSG, PSE & Fuji HS20 user)) Presentation Impact Blog

Active Member
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:01 am
Location: Isle of Man

Copyright

Postby Tosh » Thu May 01, 2008 4:45 pm

Hi Barbara -- Dickk

I know you are both absolutely right hence I don't chance my luck - its just a shame the music corporations have not yet accomodated the likes of us - they have not tapped into our market yet
Thanks for you replies
Cheers Tosh

Esteemed Member
User avatar
Posts: 187
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:11 pm
Location: Sydney, Australia

Postby Alan » Thu May 01, 2008 6:50 pm

In Australia we have an organisation - Australian Performing Right Association (link below)

http://www.apra.com.au/music-users/maki ... videos.asp

It is possible to purchase a "Single Use" domestic licence for AUD$48.95 which allows you to create 1-5 copies of "Weddings and other Domestic Videos" using copyrighted music. For AUD$418 you can purchase an annual licence that allows you to cover multiple event.

Not much good for forum members outside Australia but I would have thought there would be similar organisations in your countries. I believe the UK has a similarly named organisation.

Cheers
Alan
Oz
Alan

Sydney, Australia

fstop

Re: Copyright music

Postby fstop » Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:38 am

Heads Up!

We recently had a guest speaker at our photography club meeting. This gentleman was a copy-write/trademark attorney. He spoke on copywrite issues including music for slide shows. Bottom line, if you do not have the license for copywrited music and you use for personal, business, group gatherings etc you run a very big risk of getting sued! The fines can range from 750.00 to $150,000. I specifically gave him this scenario. A friend hires to you take pictures at their wedding. This friend knows that you also do slide shows and wants you to produce a slide show with the pictures you took. The friend also wants specific music in this show and gives you some CD's of the music to use. His answer, " Even if you don't charge for the slide show and only charge for the wedding pictures you took you could be sued for copywrite violations on the music if you don't have a lcense to use it" . He actually used the term synchronizations writes for the music. I might point out, that this attorney's firm specializes in this field and has even argued a case with the Supreme court. I hope this gives a little more light on the subject. With that being said, I would just advise that you remember the phrase, fools rush in where other fear to tread.

Qutoe for today: " The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese"

.
User avatar
Posts: 9321
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:37 pm
Location: E. Greenbush, NY

Re: Copyright music

Postby BarbaraC » Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:18 am

This certainly underscores a lot of discussions that have taken place on this forum, and it also points out (without specifically addressing it) the problem we all have, which is this: royalty-free music can often be decent, but it rarely comes up to the level of the commercial work we hear on CD's we've bought at the music store. I've done fairly exhaustive searches for music I can legally use--and that I actually like--but have found very little. It's out there, but not in any way enough. And that right there is what leads slide-show creators down the dingy path of copyright infringement.

I recently was granted permission to use some absolutely beautiful guitar music for a charity show, but had it been a for-profit show, all the rules would have changed, and I wouldn't have blamed the artist one bit. Think about it: what if a show we'd worked long and hard on suddenly appeared all over the place? Even if we were given credit for having built the show, would that really be enough? I don't think so.

What we need more than anything is for all those independent, high-quality musicians out there to get together and form a company like Digital Juice, and (for a reasonable price) offer their music to folks like us. Not intro-style music, not sound effects, but fully realized compositions we'd be proud to use with our shows. Or does such a company already exist? Have I missed it somewhere?

Barbara
The Frame Locker - styles, transitions, frames, backgrounds, & more.
Subscribe to Frame Locker News for alerts to new products.
How-to's: ProShowThink

fstop

Re: Copyright music

Postby fstop » Fri Jun 13, 2008 8:49 am

Barbara, I think you have a great idea although I don't have a clue about how to get that ball rolling.

Steve

.
User avatar
Posts: 9321
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:37 pm
Location: E. Greenbush, NY

Re: Copyright music

Postby BarbaraC » Fri Jun 13, 2008 9:01 am

Steve, I'm totally clueless too. I suppose it would take finding the right musician who's also an entrepreneurial sort.

Barbara
The Frame Locker - styles, transitions, frames, backgrounds, & more.
Subscribe to Frame Locker News for alerts to new products.
How-to's: ProShowThink

Esteemed Member
Posts: 373
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:07 pm
Location: Grand Junction, CO

Re: Copyright music

Postby Jim Adams » Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:53 am

Tosh,

It is frustrating but I believe you are right in not using copyrighted music. Someone at sometime will probably get sued. I don't want to take the chance and be that person. If, like speeding tickets (we all break that law), we knew the maximum penalty would be $100 we might take the chance. But who wants to be that one in a million to lose your house.

I don't even mind paying a few bucks for a song but because all the music is entirely unfamiliar you have to spend countless hours online listening to find something that is acceptable (maybe). Again, very frustrating.

It would be nice if Photodex would make some sort of agreement with music producers to use their music for a nominal fee. There are sites like www.photoshow.net where one can make a templated show of their vacation photos and choose from a variety of music. And it's free to many subscribers.

Jim

.
User avatar
Posts: 9321
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:37 pm
Location: E. Greenbush, NY

Re: Copyright music

Postby BarbaraC » Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:11 am

Finding music to legally use with shows that are for personal use only is fairly easy when one looks at those licensed through Creative Commons, and even there, some of the music is allowed to be used in public just as long as no money is changing hands. Beyond that, and though I haven't actually tested this out, we can write directly to an artist whose music is licensed under Creative Commons and obtain permission, though I'm sure there's a fee involved. It's this last part that makes it so difficult for us and doubtless for everyone creating any kind of video where it's just the person all alone and not part of a larger company. One song at a time, and fees all over the place.

I don't know if Photodex is still doing it, but they were offering royalty-free music for a price and that, as far as my taste goes, wasn't worth a penny.

I keep thinking about all those independent musicians out there trying their best to get a break and who might be willing to sell one-time use of a song at a price we all could afford. I've come across some truly fine musicians in my search on the Internet. If I knew how to do it, I'd set up a site where they could gather to sell and where we could buy, but I know zip about doing such things. :(

Barbara
The Frame Locker - styles, transitions, frames, backgrounds, & more.
Subscribe to Frame Locker News for alerts to new products.
How-to's: ProShowThink

.
User avatar
Posts: 5391
Joined: Fri Nov 17, 2006 11:55 am

Re: Copyright music

Postby debngar » Sat Jun 14, 2008 10:45 am

There are sites like www.photoshow.net where one can make a templated show of their vacation photos and choose from a variety of music. And it's free to many subscribers.


Jim,

I went to that website. It looks to me like the photoshow program is $39.99, not free. I think the part that is free is to register to view shows like the Photodex website where we upload our shows. Either way, I'm pretty happy with Producer and would not switch. Photoshow looks like it is owned by Roxio. If that is true, then I KNOW I don't want to buy that. I have Roxio and mostly only use it for burning my ISO files to DVD. IMO Roxio is NOT very user friendly. I'm fairly intuitive when it comes to computers and figuring things out but I don't really like Roxio much at all.

Photodex's music in their packages you can buy off their website only works in ProShow. It is a specialized format. Last time I checked it out, it was nothing to write home about and I'd not likely use any of it in a show.

I used to only like popular vocal type music to use with my shows. But I have gotten to the point where I also like the variety of background music in my expanding library of Digital Juice music. I guess it kind of has to grow on you. It sure beats dealing with the darn copyright issues.

Debbie

.
User avatar
Posts: 9321
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:37 pm
Location: E. Greenbush, NY

Re: Copyright music

Postby BarbaraC » Sat Jun 14, 2008 10:57 am

But I have gotten to the point where I also like the variety of background music in my expanding library of Digital Juice music. I guess it kind of has to grow on you. It sure beats dealing with the darn copyright issues.

I wish that could happen with me--the grow-on-you business. When they have their 9.95 specials, I find maybe one piece I like as is, but with anything else I'd have to extract the canned drums and the strange synthesizer sounds. Even at that low price, it still doesn't seem worth it for me. When we're building a show, we end up having to hear the music over and over and over until it plays all night in our heads, or at least that's what happens to me, and to work with anything less than what I really like causes brain pain.

My son says I'm too picky about the music I like. He's probably right.

Barbara
The Frame Locker - styles, transitions, frames, backgrounds, & more.
Subscribe to Frame Locker News for alerts to new products.
How-to's: ProShowThink

Esteemed Member
Posts: 373
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:07 pm
Location: Grand Junction, CO

Re: Copyright music

Postby Jim Adams » Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:12 am

Debbie,

I think Photodex software is the bomb and was in no way suggesting photoshow as an alternative. I was only referring to music, which photoshow makes available (they have hundreds of choices, not tens of thousands) only for users of their software. It would be nice if Photodex could do something similar.

If music-free shows became the in thing I could punch out about 3 dozen just off my photo archive. Assuming that is never going to happen I'll be an eternal forty-niner always looking for the mother-lode.

Jim

ProShow Hall of Fame
User avatar
Posts: 3143
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:42 pm
Location: Northern Virginia

Re: Copyright music

Postby DickK » Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:16 am

Talking to various folks (legal professionals and not) the general view is that the probability of court action is low--the most likely first action is a cease-and-desist notice, almost for certain if your use is personal and not for sale. However, that doesn't mean they can't and won't, as you said, anyone who does it is running a risk. Maybe today the corporate lawyers don't have anything better to do.

Another issue that people should watch out for is another aspect of the intellectual property morass... trademarks. If you're doing slide shows as a business, be very cautious of what you incorporate. That show with all the kids will look great with the Disney characters as a border (or whatever), right up until the cease-and-desist order arrives requiring you to destroy all copies of the offending material. Disney isn't unique or even the most vigilant -- many companies will do more than just frown on the use of their trademarks for purposes they didn't approve and license. Again, lower risk if it's purely a personal use but it still is likely actionable as infringement if they choose to take action.

Dick
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." Aristotle ((PSG, PSE & Fuji HS20 user)) Presentation Impact Blog

Next

Return to Music Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests