Jitter or flash between 0 time transition slides

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Jitter or flash between 0 time transition slides

Postby hcajones » Mon Sep 21, 2015 9:00 pm

I do almost nothing but travel-related shows in Blu-Ray. So I frequently, for example, want to start a slide with a close-up of a mountain goat, and then zoom back so you can how tiny the mountain goat is on the huge mountain (or vice versa) . To enhance that effect, which I use a lot, I routinely copy a slide and use the Match function to hold a still, no movement version of the preceding slide for a very short time - usually 1 to 1.5 seconds. It gives the brain time to see the big picture. The alternative is to do a very slow zoom, but that really makes a show drag.

The problem is that four out of five times when I do a 0 seconds transition to a matched slide which has no movement, there is a quite discernible jitter or flash or ripple (had to describe it exactly) at the moment when the slide stops moving and starts to hold still. The jitter (or whatever) is very brief, but because it is also quite noticeable, it really detracts from the smoothness of the show. I cannot see this effect when creating the show or playing it back on the computer, and if I slide the cursor (or scrubber or whatever it is called) that manually moves the slide show ahead, and do it very, very slowly between the first (moving) slide and the following (still) slide, there is no indication at all of any jitter or ripple. It looks perfectly smooth. But every Blu-Ray I burn and play ends up with the jitter or ripple.

The folks at ProShow spent quite a bit of time working with me to try to solve this, including looking at a piece of one of my shows that I transmitted to them, and they concluded there is no solution. Among the things I have tried either by myself or in consultation with ProShow:

--Burn interlaced rather than progressive.
--Add a nominal (.1 second) transition between the slide with movement and the following still slide.
--Do both of the above at the same time.
--Burn the show using burning software other than that built into ProShow (via an ISO file).
--Burn on a different burner.
--Play on a different player.

None of this solved the problem, which strongly suggests to me (although I am a complete amateur at stuff like this) that this is the result of the basic rendering function in ProShow. As I said, ProShow has politely, and only after considerable effort, declared the problem unsolvable.

Does anyone have any ideas at all that I haven't already tried?

As always, thanks for your help.

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Re: Jitter or flash between 0 time transition slides

Postby cherub » Mon Sep 21, 2015 9:39 pm

Interesting.

But just to clarify some of the things that you wrote:
Have you tried not to use the function "Match" and just copy the end to next slide ?
What is the 0 transition that you used in between: Is it CUT or something else?
Have you tried to render to some other kind of video output except DVD? For example the High Definition YouTube preset (mp4)? Can you still see these flashes/ripples?

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Re: Jitter or flash between 0 time transition slides

Postby hcajones » Mon Sep 21, 2015 9:52 pm

I have tried matching without using the actual match function, and I should have mentioned that. In other words, I copy the slide with movement and make it the next slide, and then manually make it match the end of the preceding slide in all respects. This does not solve the problem.

The transition is a basic fade, but there is 0 time given to the transition.

I am making Blu-Rays, not DVDs (although I did make DVDs before and had the same problem).

As to this question: "Have you tried to render to some other kind of video output except DVD? For example the High Definition YouTube preset (mp4)?"

No, and I don't really even know how to do that. I've gotten pretty handy using ProShow, but that doesn't mean I get the underlying technical aspects of it at all. Are you suggesting that I could render the show as High Definition YouTube preset (mp4) and then burn that to a Blu-Ray?

Thanks for your help.

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Re: Jitter or flash between 0 time transition slides

Postby cherub » Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:15 pm

hcajones wrote: Are you suggesting that I could render the show as High Definition YouTube preset (mp4) and then burn that to a Blu-Ray?
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No, I was just curious if some other format would display the same problem.

Personally, I stopped using DVDs long ago, and instead I use disk on key that connects to my TV through USB. I simply put the mp4 on the disk on key, and my TV is capable of reading it.
Most modern TVs are capable of reading mp4, so I thought that perhaps you'll fare better with this format.
Also, less hassle. No DVDs to burn, and no dedicated DVD player.

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Re: Jitter or flash between 0 time transition slides

Postby Astra » Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:30 pm

Very interesting problem,
.... if it is doing 4x time of 5 = means: one is good & others are flickering, there must be some reason behind it.
It would be very helpful to see the show - or at least part of it.
Could you post it - like: 2 slides before & 2 slides after the problematic slide - so we can see it ?.... (Just: copy the show & delete others slides.)
How about music or any other sounds happening around the slide?

One thing came to my mind - how large (pixelwise) are the photographs ?? ... I had some problems with huge photos & deep zooming in, they were "dragging" .....

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Re: Jitter or flash between 0 time transition slides

Postby heckydog » Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:23 pm

. . . . want to start a slide with a close-up of a mountain goat, and then zoom back so you can how tiny the mountain goat is on the huge mountain (or vice versa) . To enhance that effect, which I use a lot, I routinely copy a slide and use the Match function to hold a still, no movement version of the preceding slide for a very short time - usually 1 to 1.5 seconds. It gives the brain time to see the big picture. . . . . .


Why are you doing this with separate slides? Wouldn't it be easier, and possibly fix the issue, if you use keyframes to create the entire effect?

Or maybe I'm just not understanding what you're trying to do. :?

Joe

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Re: Jitter or flash between 0 time transition slides

Postby gpsmikey » Tue Sep 22, 2015 6:21 pm

I was sort of thinking along the lines of Joe (heckydog), but if I remember correctly, you are using Gold, not Producer - is that correct? If you indeed have producer, then the solution is simple where you put keyframe 1 to whatever initial size you want, add a second keyframe 1-2 seconds later and set it to the same values then zoom to keyframe 3 at the end to get to where you want the final to be (or have keyframe 3 and 4 where you zoom between 2 and 3 then hold at the final zoom for the 3-4 period). If you have Gold then, indeed you need to use multiple slides for start, zoom and end (if you want to hold at the beginning and ending).

mikey
You can't have too many gadgets or too much disk space !!
mikey (PSP6, Photoshop CS6, Vegas Pro 14, Acid 7, BluffTitler, Nikon D300s, D810)
Lots of PIC and Arduino microprocessor stuff too !!

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Re: Jitter or flash between 0 time transition slides

Postby hcajones » Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:45 am

Thanks to everyone for the thoughts and suggestions. I've been gone for a while (so now I have ANOTHER slideshow to make.)

I moved from PSG to PSP a while ago because PSP has some features I really that that aren't available on PSG. But so far, I have been able to do everything I want to do on PSP quite easily without using keyframing. But it appears that to solve this problem. keyframing is the only answer, so I'll get out the manual and look at the tutorials and figure it out.

Again, thanks for your help.

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Re: Jitter or flash between 0 time transition slides

Postby Astra » Tue Oct 06, 2015 10:41 am

This is one (older but still very good) introduction to Keyframing - (was posted in 2010 by Alan):

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=17133&p=135547&hilit=keyframing#p135547)

... to see it in real life is sometimes better than just reading about it ....

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