Center of Rotation

Post your tips & tricks here for creating slide shows with ProShow Producer. This could include suggestions for style and content in addition to working with the software itself
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Center of Rotation

Postby reptep » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:13 am

Hope everyone is well

Does anyone know if there is a tutorial on using the center of rotation in PSP.? I saw this done at the conference but didn't right it down. Not sure where it's found (modifiers?) or how to use it correctly.
Any guidance would be appreciated as always.

Thx
Todd

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Re: Center of Rotaion

Postby Kastaneda » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:32 am

Last edited by Kastaneda on Sun May 22, 2011 1:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Center of Rotaion

Postby reptep » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:35 am

Not exactly what I'm looking for.
Trying to learn how to work with the center of rotation to create 3d effects. Plus those that were listed are in...Russian?

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Re: Center of Rotaion

Postby tdew » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:42 am

I would look in the conference book - and do the examples again. There is a great amount of information in there.

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Re: Rotation Center

Postby cherub » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:53 am

This is a quotation from the Help file of Producer:

Rotation Center
The Rotation Center value allows you to set the point on which your layer will rotate. By default, this is set to 0 x 0, which is the middle of the layer.
These two values can be adjusted in the same way as your Pan values. The left is the X axis and the right is the Y. The same kind of grid applies to your layers. It has a range of 100, from -50 to 50, for both axes.
Moving the Rotation Center will cause your layer to rotate around that point, rather than the middle of the layer. The Rotation Center can be changed from the Starting to Ending Position, causing the point to travel as the layer moves. If the layer is rotating while this takes place, the center point of the layer will move and adjust the rotation in real time.
It’s a very powerful feature but it takes some experimenting to get a strong sense of how it works. Feel free to try moving the Rotation Center around as you rotate the layer and see what you get.


I know that Jennifer once offered a tip for creating the illusion of 3D effects by changes in the rotation center.
But, it's more like a "poor man's 3D effect", because Producer works only in two dimensions.

Here is Jennifer's tip:
Drop a photo into a slide.
KF1 - Make the Rotation center 50 x 50
Unlock X and Y Zoom; make Y=0
Rotate = 90
Now, play it back and see what you get!!


:D

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Re: Center of Rotaion

Postby im42n8 » Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:36 pm

One "tip" about center of rotation is that 3-D like effects can be achieved by also unlocking the xy axes (as noted by the above Jennifer tip). If you're going to control any of the rotation using modifiers, note that the rotation in modifiers is referenced in terms of a percent of full rotation.

A rotation based on unlocking the xy axes, and rotating on a corner (-50,50, which is the lower left corner) from plus or minus 90 degrees while starting out one axes at 0 and the other at 100, can give an interesting effect (the rotation will depend on which axis starts at 0) that can sort of appear to be 3-D.

I used the effect originally in my Mesa Verde show (where the effect was seen for the first time anywhere). I don't remember which bundle I have the style in (so you can look at the demo) or the transition sets (look under Rotates), but I think I called the style is called Rotate InOut (or something like that .... I'm not at my home computer to check. But, it's probably in Vol 1 or 2). That might help you, combined with the information above.

The rest of it is experimenting to see what you like best (which corner(s)/side(s) and which axis starts at 0, and what rotation value will work for you).

Have fun!

Dale
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Re: Center of Rotation

Postby reptep » Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:33 am

Dale,
That really helps. What I just don't know is what the numbers are for the xy axis. In other words if I have a photo that I want to modify with center of rotation, how do I know what numbers to put in so that the photo rotates on the corner or edge that I want? I did see where -50 50 are bottom left corner which really helps. But how would I know that and how do I figure out the numbers if I wanted a different part of the photo to modify?
Thx
Todd

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Re: Center of Rotation

Postby BarbaraC » Sun Jan 23, 2011 11:52 am

Todd, you have to just wing it until Photodex hears our pleas on this one. What I do is guess on how far right or left, up or down, I want the center to be. If the spot marking the center isn't quite there yet--and it never is--I move it by small increments until it's where I want it.

By coincidence, behind this screen is Producer where I had to move the rotation center to a spot that was centered from right to left but that needed to be approximately 1/4 of the way down from the top of the screen. I plugged in -10 in the vertical axis just to see where the center landed, found it wasn't enough, moved it to -15 and then to -20. A nudge up to -21 put it right on the money.

Photodex has been asked to give us the ability to grab the rotation center so we can move it visually, but knowing if or when they grant our wish requires ESP.

Barbara
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Re: Center of Rotation

Postby im42n8 » Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:25 pm

Here's something that many don't seem to realize about how Photodex handles the screen positioning: The screen represents the viewing frame and is 100% across from left to right and 100% down from top to bottom.

The center of the screen is 0,0. So, 50 percent is to the left, 50% to the right, 50% to the top, and 50% to the bottom. Photodex measures it from screen center (or 0,0) as follows: -50 to the top, -50 to the left, 50% to the right, 50% to the bottom. So, 50,50 is bottom right. -50,-50 is top left, 50,-50 is top right, and -50,50 is bottom left.

Images are measured in exactly the same way except that the measurements deal specifically with the image on the layer itself vs the screen. So, the left edge is -50,0 while the top edge is -50,0. The corners are the same as given above. Remember, images are 100% across and 100% top to bottom. So, movements are measured in increments of percents (whole numbers . . . modifiers allow partial degrees of rotation).

Zoom is also referenced in term of %. This is actually a bit more involved than it would appear because it's related to the scaling of the image (fit to frame, fill frame, fit to safe zone, etc). So, some zooming is already built into the image that appears on the screen. Just remember that Zoom is a relative term related to the scaled image. Actual zoom (size) can be considerably different (that is, a zoom of 150 may actually be treated internally as 550% under certain circumstances).

Differences to center of rotation come in when the image is not the same aspect ratio as the screen frame and is not the same size as the screen frame. In this case, if you have an image scaled to "fill frame" you may have image spill over (the image will have parts of it extending beyond the viewable screen area). So, if you do have an image that has this spill over, rotating the image on -50,50 will rotate it on the bottom left corner of the image which will NOT line up with the screen -50,50. In this case, if you wanted the image to rotate at the screen corner you'll need to find where rotation point on the image what does line up with the screen corner. Probably something like -45,50 for a 3:2 image.

With judicious planning and some appropriate sizing, you can get nice and interesting effects. Besides, sizing an image to the frame isn't necessary to create your effect (as the demo demonstrates). I sized the images in the demo to 90% of "fit to safe zone." Then moved the image to the far left. I rotated the image to -90. I reduced the zoom-x to 0 and kept the zoom-y to 90 (otherwise it's the other way around, can't remember right off the top of my head). The center of rotation was changed to the lower left of the image. As the image came onto the screen it rotated back to 0 degrees, the zoom axis that was set to 0 was allowed to return to 90, and the location was moved from the left edge of the screen to the screen center.

That's the basics of it without getting into the exact settings.

Have fun!

Dale
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Re: Center of Rotation

Postby BarbaraC » Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:38 pm

Images are measured in exactly the same way except that the measurements deal specifically with the image on the layer itself vs the screen.

With this caveat: If you have an image surrounded by a transparent area, which is pretty much inevitable with cutouts, you can't see the actual edges of the image, so you still have to estimate broadly and work your way down to the target. That's precisely what I'm working with at the moment. Because all my layers must end up coming together as a complete object, the image dimensions for each part in each layer are identical regardless of how large or small and regardless of the placement of the individual parts.

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Re: Center of Rotation

Postby reptep » Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:20 pm

Ok thanks guys. I just couldn't figure out what numbers to put in to get to the spot I wanted to modify my rotation. Will have to plug in numbers as I go along but this gives me a head start on where to point for a start.

Thank all. That's what I was sondering about.

Cheers

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Re: Center of Rotation

Postby im42n8 » Sat Oct 08, 2011 3:41 pm

For those of you still interested in this subject, you might check out this link on my blog from July 2011: http://fenimorephotovideos.com/blog/?page_id=360

This is an introduction into figuring out how to specify rotation centers exactly where you want them. It should be enough to get you started, for now. It takes a bit of studying but you might get the gist of it. It's a bunch of ratios and relationships between layers. Once you understand what's going on a bunch of other things start to make sense.

I've worked out the relationships for Fit to Frame and Fill Frame scaling. This is the only way to make effective use of the rotation center changes. You will want to put the equations into a spreadsheet to get the calculations done quickly and easily.

There are some caveats. You will need to work on 1 set of equations at at time. The Fill Frame scaling should work for nearly everything you will want to do, just use the zoom to change the layer size appropriately. There are 2 aspects of this that you need to be aware of: when the layer's ratio is smaller than or equal to the screen ratio and when the layer's ratio is larger or equal to the screen ratio. A 16:9 screen aspect has a ratio of 16/9=1.778. When the aspect is smaller, the layer sides will fit exactly to the 2 screen sides and the top and bottom of the layer will extend beyond the frame. When larger, the top and bottom fit the screen top and bottom exactly and the layer sides will extend beyond the screen frame. The equations for each are slightly different.

Next, you'll find that ProShow has a positioning error in the y-axis in all scalings and in the x-axis where the layer ratio is larger than the screen's. This error gets larger the smaller the layer gets (zoom-wise). In some situations it becomes problematic. However, you can work around it. Most of us who've messed with rotation centers in the past have experienced this problem but just simply didn't recognize it for what it was.

Next, you'll notice that the visual outline of a layer may not be where you expect it to be relative to another layer (especially when you have 2 layers on top of each other). That's because there's a visual positioning error. You might notice that the rotation center of each layer may look different even when the point on the screen used by each layer is exactly the same. This is evident only if you have "Show Layer / Caption Controls" turned on.

Finally, you'll find that the grid lines may NOT be written to the screen consistently or correctly. They'll be close but they aren't accurate. Further, you notice that one day they'll be in one place and the next time you open the program the gridlines may be shifted left or right of where they were the previous time you used the program.

This isn't to scare you off but to make you aware of some limitations with ProShow that you don't become aware of until you can precisely specify rotation centers among your layers that may be shared between them. If you're aware of it up front it's easier to work around or with (or to at least know the problem isn't you!).

Good Luck!

Dale
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